Forums » Role Playing
Forum Moderator, you raise some very good points. And I totally agree with them. Thanks for bringing the voice of reason into this thread.
Quite frankly I don't know what all this "griefing" business is about. It's pretty easy to lose your tracks in this huge universe. If you think you're being "griefed" you should put some effort in leaving the area and finding something else to do.
The problem is nobody makes the effort to save themselves from these attacks. They sit around Sedina B8 all day, wiggling their butts, expecting not to get attacked, and then they shout up a storm when they do get attacked. What did they expect?
That being said, here are a few novel ideas you can take if you feel like you're being targeted...
1. If you're a big dueling fan you can privately arrange a duel in one of the many empty sectors around the universe.
2. Remember, you can leave the system altogether and go find something else to do. If you attempt to attack the aggressor or choose to follow a predictable navroute, you will remain in their presence.
3. You can log off, cool down a bit, and find something more productive to do with your time. Remember that it's just a game and it's not worth stressing yourself over pixels on the screen.
That being said, I hope some people take some of this advice. Just don't expect people to magically not shoot at you or not follow you. Because they're not doing anything wrong. They're playing the game just as you are. Given the fact that it's so easy to lose anyone's trail, there should be no excuses about being griefed.
PS: Softy, I don't think most people take pleasure in watching others curse and flip out on the channel. If anything it's an annoyance. I tend to ignore those people. But sometimes I might giggle at the level of immaturity it tends to escalate to. But it's not something we do to get a reaction out of people. You're grossly mistaken if that's what you think.
Quite frankly I don't know what all this "griefing" business is about. It's pretty easy to lose your tracks in this huge universe. If you think you're being "griefed" you should put some effort in leaving the area and finding something else to do.
The problem is nobody makes the effort to save themselves from these attacks. They sit around Sedina B8 all day, wiggling their butts, expecting not to get attacked, and then they shout up a storm when they do get attacked. What did they expect?
That being said, here are a few novel ideas you can take if you feel like you're being targeted...
1. If you're a big dueling fan you can privately arrange a duel in one of the many empty sectors around the universe.
2. Remember, you can leave the system altogether and go find something else to do. If you attempt to attack the aggressor or choose to follow a predictable navroute, you will remain in their presence.
3. You can log off, cool down a bit, and find something more productive to do with your time. Remember that it's just a game and it's not worth stressing yourself over pixels on the screen.
That being said, I hope some people take some of this advice. Just don't expect people to magically not shoot at you or not follow you. Because they're not doing anything wrong. They're playing the game just as you are. Given the fact that it's so easy to lose anyone's trail, there should be no excuses about being griefed.
PS: Softy, I don't think most people take pleasure in watching others curse and flip out on the channel. If anything it's an annoyance. I tend to ignore those people. But sometimes I might giggle at the level of immaturity it tends to escalate to. But it's not something we do to get a reaction out of people. You're grossly mistaken if that's what you think.
As for Genka, while he does tend to show up with gasoline to a bonfire...</snip>
Heh. Genka has made me laugh on numberous occaisions. While I will admit that it is fun to make fighting hard for people on occaision (for example: lying in wait at the Deneb wormhole waiting for Serco on their way to BP. Particularly effective when lots of Serco are BPing when few Itani are, because you can force the serco to fight damaged once they get to C-10. >:) ). However, I agree with Shape when he says:
"...and when people are overly rude, you don't rely on "their good sense and charity""
A little 'time out' of a day or so won't hurt anybody. Or even a few hours.
Heh. Genka has made me laugh on numberous occaisions. While I will admit that it is fun to make fighting hard for people on occaision (for example: lying in wait at the Deneb wormhole waiting for Serco on their way to BP. Particularly effective when lots of Serco are BPing when few Itani are, because you can force the serco to fight damaged once they get to C-10. >:) ). However, I agree with Shape when he says:
"...and when people are overly rude, you don't rely on "their good sense and charity""
A little 'time out' of a day or so won't hurt anybody. Or even a few hours.
Actually Arolte, I have taken FM's good advice before he even said it.
I've quit the game, deleted all my chars, and left it because of you. Congratulations, your reasonable arguments to be an asshole have successfully undermined the devs.
[EDIT: By the way Arolte, I spend a lot of my time as an academic shooting down circular, non-sequitur, doublespeaking arguments of people like you who masquerade as a gentlemen, but hides a rotten streak beneath. So take your condescension to the game, and rejoice that you have successfully driven a pirate out of this game, for good.]
You win? No, the devs lose.
I've quit the game, deleted all my chars, and left it because of you. Congratulations, your reasonable arguments to be an asshole have successfully undermined the devs.
[EDIT: By the way Arolte, I spend a lot of my time as an academic shooting down circular, non-sequitur, doublespeaking arguments of people like you who masquerade as a gentlemen, but hides a rotten streak beneath. So take your condescension to the game, and rejoice that you have successfully driven a pirate out of this game, for good.]
You win? No, the devs lose.
You know, genka IS funny, but he's also a troll, and sometimes, even though I find some of his comments amusing, he needs to get a real response.
And guess what Arolte, while you in particular may have committed actions that started this thread, it's really more about the hands-off approach that the devs have taken when it comes to disciplinary action.
And guess what Arolte, while you in particular may have committed actions that started this thread, it's really more about the hands-off approach that the devs have taken when it comes to disciplinary action.
Softy may not be the only one walking away, I'm not gonna pay for a game where I can't have fun. And I'm not gonna play a game where I have to not have fun cus some one wants to start up stuff.
You devs made rules now will you stick to them?
You devs made rules now will you stick to them?
o_O
Forum Moderator, you raise some very good points. And I totally agree with them. Thanks for bringing the voice of reason into this thread.
Arolte...get off your high horse. The reason that people are frustrated with you, is because you always come across with a very elitist 'I'm better than everyone, and if you disagree, you are wrong.' attitude.
The bottom line is I extend my services as sort of a human version of the Strike Force, but outside of UIT boundaries. Whether I fight fair or not is irrelevant. Whether I retreat or not is irrelevant. My goal is to blast all enemies of UIT no matter what the cost. Be prepared for anything.
Quote: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10844
It strikes me like you're trying to mimic the 'White Hats' or somesuch, but sucking up to those in power reeks of cowardice and/or blatant brown-nosing.
Forum Moderator, you raise some very good points. And I totally agree with them. Thanks for bringing the voice of reason into this thread.
Arolte...get off your high horse. The reason that people are frustrated with you, is because you always come across with a very elitist 'I'm better than everyone, and if you disagree, you are wrong.' attitude.
The bottom line is I extend my services as sort of a human version of the Strike Force, but outside of UIT boundaries. Whether I fight fair or not is irrelevant. Whether I retreat or not is irrelevant. My goal is to blast all enemies of UIT no matter what the cost. Be prepared for anything.
Quote: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10844
It strikes me like you're trying to mimic the 'White Hats' or somesuch, but sucking up to those in power reeks of cowardice and/or blatant brown-nosing.
I am so sorely tempted to take the *currently accepted* style and ethics and use them in a similar way against traders. I wonder how long until I get a smackdown.
Actually this issue has been around for a while. Does anyone remember Hank Hill.
Actually this issue has been around for a while. Does anyone remember Hank Hill.
Well with the Rules of Conduct and such there's not much of a fine line.
And apparently 150 posts of rebutal (sure not ALL of it is against Arolte, every other post is him defending his actions) is not enough to do anything about it.
[morbid]
So VO will just slowly lose players like a hot air ballon that once was fun, untill Arolte only has himself and the UIT to play with in his perfect world of peace.
[/morbid]
And apparently 150 posts of rebutal (sure not ALL of it is against Arolte, every other post is him defending his actions) is not enough to do anything about it.
[morbid]
So VO will just slowly lose players like a hot air ballon that once was fun, untill Arolte only has himself and the UIT to play with in his perfect world of peace.
[/morbid]
Whoa, Shape is Puck O_O!? No wonder he seemed a little to good for someone I never seen before...
Actually Kix, your [morbid] bit paints a really funny picture that had me laughing hysterically. We could put a Merry-Go-Round music to it, it will even gell in with the last scene in Catcher in the Rye. [EDIT: I just realized how appropriate is that, at least for me.]
I'm choosing to post here because I believe I have an outsider's point of view on this. I think a lot of people have lost the real argument due to frusturation. Though not actually involved in any of this myself, I have been witness to it and have read every bit posted in the forums about it. People are not angry with Arolte because he attacks you when you're sitting in B8. I would agree there that if you get shot in B8 while unprepared, it's your own fault.
It seems that people are angry with him because his method of play interrupts their own. A lot of current players like to have one on one battles and have a code of honor established. I'm familiar with this code myself. Arolte does not recognize this and wants to play his own way which involves attacking enemies to UIT (or possibly others, but I cannot attest to this myself having not actually seen it.) no matter what they are doing. Duels or their own RP be damned, if they're red on his radar he shoots them. I believe that what makes this so repulsive to us is the fact that we are a small, tightly knit community.
Our player base has such small numbers that a system of respect for one another is necessary for everyone's enjoyment of the game. In the Vendetta with a player base of hundreds upon hundreds where many sectors are rarely empty and indeed sometimes crowded, I think Arolte's behavior would be more acceptable to everyone. However, with this current small and very personal community, a mutual respect for eachothers desires is necessary IN MY OPINION.
With 30-40 people online at a time, I condone the idea of not attacking someone who I know does not wish to fight me. In this way, I think the game becomes more fun for our small community.
Some may argue pirating is different, but the actions of most pirates in attacking traders do not come near what I have seen described of Arolte. (Again, I am not witness to a portion of this myself.) Pirates help add content to the game. How boring would it be if traders knew that wherever they had to go they would make it with 100% armor, it was just a matter of time. Sounds pretty boring to me.
From the responses of people it seems Arolte has been harassing (for lack of a better word as I have not been witness to harassment myself) people enough for them to give up and leave the game. All I can say on that is if people are not having fun anymore then it defeats the purpose of the game and actions need to be checked, RP or not. In the future, with a larger playerbase, I don't think we would have this kind of problem. But with the size of the community now I can see where issues would crop up.
Disclaimer: I am not judging Arolte or his actions as I have not been involved enough to rightly do so. I am merely stating my opinion on the "ethics" of a "game". And hope to bring the arguments down to a calmer level where perhaps things can be discussed and worked out by those involved. If everyone can try to stay calm and have a reasonable discussion with the intent of getting mutual issues resolved, I think some progress might be made.
It seems that people are angry with him because his method of play interrupts their own. A lot of current players like to have one on one battles and have a code of honor established. I'm familiar with this code myself. Arolte does not recognize this and wants to play his own way which involves attacking enemies to UIT (or possibly others, but I cannot attest to this myself having not actually seen it.) no matter what they are doing. Duels or their own RP be damned, if they're red on his radar he shoots them. I believe that what makes this so repulsive to us is the fact that we are a small, tightly knit community.
Our player base has such small numbers that a system of respect for one another is necessary for everyone's enjoyment of the game. In the Vendetta with a player base of hundreds upon hundreds where many sectors are rarely empty and indeed sometimes crowded, I think Arolte's behavior would be more acceptable to everyone. However, with this current small and very personal community, a mutual respect for eachothers desires is necessary IN MY OPINION.
With 30-40 people online at a time, I condone the idea of not attacking someone who I know does not wish to fight me. In this way, I think the game becomes more fun for our small community.
Some may argue pirating is different, but the actions of most pirates in attacking traders do not come near what I have seen described of Arolte. (Again, I am not witness to a portion of this myself.) Pirates help add content to the game. How boring would it be if traders knew that wherever they had to go they would make it with 100% armor, it was just a matter of time. Sounds pretty boring to me.
From the responses of people it seems Arolte has been harassing (for lack of a better word as I have not been witness to harassment myself) people enough for them to give up and leave the game. All I can say on that is if people are not having fun anymore then it defeats the purpose of the game and actions need to be checked, RP or not. In the future, with a larger playerbase, I don't think we would have this kind of problem. But with the size of the community now I can see where issues would crop up.
Disclaimer: I am not judging Arolte or his actions as I have not been involved enough to rightly do so. I am merely stating my opinion on the "ethics" of a "game". And hope to bring the arguments down to a calmer level where perhaps things can be discussed and worked out by those involved. If everyone can try to stay calm and have a reasonable discussion with the intent of getting mutual issues resolved, I think some progress might be made.
My theory as to why it's all come to a where we are now.
A lot of players have spent a lot of time creating a culture of fun through RP. There have been good guys, bad guys, neutrals and even though there have been many battles and the odd tiff (BLAK vs IA/Viper rings a bell) it's all been done with a lot of humour and respect for others players.
Now we have a new standard. A more "realistic", but also far less entertaining game where running is acceptable, honour is non existent, and every time you get ganked you can enjoy seeing "I <3 you" or whatever other rubbish someone whose "roleplaying" will blurt out.
Now I'm not sure where this will go. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks. However if that's the new standard of RP and gameplay then I hope the devs get the NFZ working again soon.
[EDIT] Great post Ghost.
A lot of players have spent a lot of time creating a culture of fun through RP. There have been good guys, bad guys, neutrals and even though there have been many battles and the odd tiff (BLAK vs IA/Viper rings a bell) it's all been done with a lot of humour and respect for others players.
Now we have a new standard. A more "realistic", but also far less entertaining game where running is acceptable, honour is non existent, and every time you get ganked you can enjoy seeing "I <3 you" or whatever other rubbish someone whose "roleplaying" will blurt out.
Now I'm not sure where this will go. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks. However if that's the new standard of RP and gameplay then I hope the devs get the NFZ working again soon.
[EDIT] Great post Ghost.
Gah...
This is by far the most civilized game community I have had the pleasure to be part of... and it's sad to see the same problems cropping up here as do with every other game.
The community CANNOT police itself if we do not have the tools to do so. Ignoring someone... or having to get everyone in a sector to chase them off is not fun... because they just do it again. There is no "consequence" to "griefing" as of now... and even if there was... it would be abused.
Some things just aren't cool... and it's not cool when the people know this... and still do it.
This game will become a cesspool of the idiots of the internet if some mechanism for stopping such unwanted behaviour is not availible.
Think about it, what you don't like about the current situation will get far worse with more people... because there will be more "griefers." This does NOT justify the current "griefing" as "training for the future." This just highlights the need for a system by which to police them.
Give us something to show our disapproval of their behaviour... something with TANGIBLE consequences.
If you read that, I hope it made sense.
-Zoras
This is by far the most civilized game community I have had the pleasure to be part of... and it's sad to see the same problems cropping up here as do with every other game.
The community CANNOT police itself if we do not have the tools to do so. Ignoring someone... or having to get everyone in a sector to chase them off is not fun... because they just do it again. There is no "consequence" to "griefing" as of now... and even if there was... it would be abused.
Some things just aren't cool... and it's not cool when the people know this... and still do it.
This game will become a cesspool of the idiots of the internet if some mechanism for stopping such unwanted behaviour is not availible.
Think about it, what you don't like about the current situation will get far worse with more people... because there will be more "griefers." This does NOT justify the current "griefing" as "training for the future." This just highlights the need for a system by which to police them.
Give us something to show our disapproval of their behaviour... something with TANGIBLE consequences.
If you read that, I hope it made sense.
-Zoras
Ghost, for the most part your observations are correct regarding my rules of engagement. And I have to say I'm quite impressed by your ability to break it down like that.
In any case like I said if the devs didn't want these actions to occur in the game, they would have put something in there to prevent or penalize you from doing that. Judging by Michael's response in the general forum, steps are already being taken to do just that. Or at least that's how it sounded like.
In any case I have confidence that everyone will be happy in the end, once the game is more developed. It was never my intention to push anyone's buttons or change the game towards any particular direction. But if what I'm doing means requiring the game to be more refined towards making the game's design better, so be it. Maybe some good might come out of it.
In any case like I said if the devs didn't want these actions to occur in the game, they would have put something in there to prevent or penalize you from doing that. Judging by Michael's response in the general forum, steps are already being taken to do just that. Or at least that's how it sounded like.
In any case I have confidence that everyone will be happy in the end, once the game is more developed. It was never my intention to push anyone's buttons or change the game towards any particular direction. But if what I'm doing means requiring the game to be more refined towards making the game's design better, so be it. Maybe some good might come out of it.
I would just like to see people approach Arolte personally and calmly/reasonably asking him to refrain from certain actions due to the fact that it inhibits their enjoyment of the game. Perhaps people already have tried this, again I don't know. Just a suggestion.
Some have, Ghost. And I'm not trying to be an ass or anything by continuing to do so. But when every other person does that, you pretty much have nobody left to fight with. I mean do pirates stop dead in their tracks when a trader says, "No, please stop! Spare my life!" Ummm no. Because then it just becomes a game of dueling and trading only. And well, I don't think that's much fun.
I personally believe non-consensual combat is a part of Vendetta. I don't think it would be a good idea to take that away from the game. Because then all the pirates, badguys, etc. will be gone and it'll be a boring game. And considering how easy it is to escape from anyone, I don't see it as big of a problem as most people make it out to be.
So IMO I think a lot of people are just blowing this way out of proportion. The stuff that's going on now pales in comparison to how the alpha and beta versions were. Just sayin'...
I personally believe non-consensual combat is a part of Vendetta. I don't think it would be a good idea to take that away from the game. Because then all the pirates, badguys, etc. will be gone and it'll be a boring game. And considering how easy it is to escape from anyone, I don't see it as big of a problem as most people make it out to be.
So IMO I think a lot of people are just blowing this way out of proportion. The stuff that's going on now pales in comparison to how the alpha and beta versions were. Just sayin'...
Ghost, check out the plethora of threads about his behaviour.
(Note that Arolte is still riding his horse.)
The problem, however, is NOT Arolte.
It is the apathy of those who hold reins of power to stop such behaviour.
Perhaps the solution is as icbm1987 says, it is the lack of a mechanism to paint "GRIEFER" on the heads of those who are one.
The thing is though : you can never find such a mechanism. Technological solutions to social problems are inherently untenable. Just look around you, have the safeguards in all the equipment we make stop criminals from using them against you?
Now, I, as CCB/Henry Jekyll, posted a complaint about Arolte for his behaviour. That was an opening for the devs to come in and say "Arolte, please stop, you are pissing people off.".
Instead, as the last post in this thread noted :
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/11177
So, we are asked to "tolerate" others' "roleplaying". I respect that decision, it is their game after all. This is why I am quitting.
Today there's a prat named Arolte. Tomorrow, who? If this is acceptable roleplaying, then this game is not for me.
(Note that Arolte is still riding his horse.)
The problem, however, is NOT Arolte.
It is the apathy of those who hold reins of power to stop such behaviour.
Perhaps the solution is as icbm1987 says, it is the lack of a mechanism to paint "GRIEFER" on the heads of those who are one.
The thing is though : you can never find such a mechanism. Technological solutions to social problems are inherently untenable. Just look around you, have the safeguards in all the equipment we make stop criminals from using them against you?
Now, I, as CCB/Henry Jekyll, posted a complaint about Arolte for his behaviour. That was an opening for the devs to come in and say "Arolte, please stop, you are pissing people off.".
Instead, as the last post in this thread noted :
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/11177
So, we are asked to "tolerate" others' "roleplaying". I respect that decision, it is their game after all. This is why I am quitting.
Today there's a prat named Arolte. Tomorrow, who? If this is acceptable roleplaying, then this game is not for me.
I see your point Arolte. But with only 30-40 people online I think enjoyment of the game is so essential to its success. If your behavior is causing people to so greatly lose enjoyment of the game, and in such great numbers (as softy pointed out to me), my suggestion would be to sort of put your current RP on "hold" until the player base gets larger. Maybe make an alt and try RPing a different way until the community becomes large enough that these kind of things wont be as much of a problem. Anywho, that's just my opinion, i find myself now lacking the involvement to make any judgements so having stated my opinions I withdraw myself from these arguments.
Ghost,
I pity thee in not knowing how unreasonable Arolte is. Everyone in VO can disagree with him, but in his mind he will see it as noone else having reached his level of enlightenment.
Therefore asking him to stop doing something that agitates so many people is just below him.
[edit]
And DAMN either shape is really popular or everyone just hates Arolte.
08:22PM - 11:01PM = 38 posts
[/edit]
I pity thee in not knowing how unreasonable Arolte is. Everyone in VO can disagree with him, but in his mind he will see it as noone else having reached his level of enlightenment.
Therefore asking him to stop doing something that agitates so many people is just below him.
[edit]
And DAMN either shape is really popular or everyone just hates Arolte.
08:22PM - 11:01PM = 38 posts
[/edit]
This thread is far from being about either Shape or Arolte. We all know there are tons of topics out there talking about both of them.
What this thread is about would be wither or not the devs will listen to their player base when there is a problem in the game, and wither or not the devs will handle the situation in the right way.
This topic is about wither or not we can trust our devs to do right by us or not.
What this thread is about would be wither or not the devs will listen to their player base when there is a problem in the game, and wither or not the devs will handle the situation in the right way.
This topic is about wither or not we can trust our devs to do right by us or not.