Forums » Role Playing
Hey, at no point did I inflict any fatal wounds to said witness :P
Actually, yes.
Severing of the tongue (in the amounts that were referenced) is enough to cause death by bleeding out--your tongue has a large number of blood vessels in it, and they don't exactly heal quickly.
Severing of the tongue (in the amounts that were referenced) is enough to cause death by bleeding out--your tongue has a large number of blood vessels in it, and they don't exactly heal quickly.
(1) I'd have to have taken out the major vessels in the center, and my little nip did no such thing.
(2) If yer damn nanites hadn't been tearing you up, that tongue would have healed right up.
[EDIT] Point 2 still holds true :P
(2) If yer damn nanites hadn't been tearing you up, that tongue would have healed right up.
[EDIT] Point 2 still holds true :P
I'm not about to quote the logs from that weekend, but I can tell you that the statement was up to interpretation, and I interpreted it in writing first :P
Well, I've been recently informed that Lecter did not in fact die during transfer, so I can now get into this debate which I previously thought was meaningless:
Miharu, you claim that you committed suicide by nanites. However, if that is the case then the one involved in this issue and parading around as Miharu must be a clone. Since clones are currently not legally recognized as an individual, and do not have the full rights of the original, your claims are invalidated.
Alternatively, we'll give you the option to suddenly plead "Not Dead"--basically say that it was a clone who committed suicide and we are now talking to you. However since all the actions you bring up would then have been done to the clone, and clones again to not have full rights, the charges are still invalidated. Also since you agreed to yourself enter Lecter's household that weekend, he can sue you for sending a clone instead.
To this date, the legality of clones, cloning and liabilities of clones have not been established and as such, clones do not necessarily inherit legal rights, protections or obligations granted by the law to individuals.
The debate is up for grab by anyone but many and profound implications arise by legally recognizing clones as one's very same self rather than some unregistered (via nation census and birth registry) artificial individual's twin. Are clones entities? Are they property? Are they liable for their owner or original self?
Lots of questions remain such as fiscal, social, criminal and moral implications. if a clone commits a crime, is the original responsible? If the original doesn't survive his clone, where does the succession go? Or is the original denied dead status?
Under the currently vague status of cloning, clones and every issues regarding this, it is hard to recognize many of (so-called) Miharu's claims regarding this criminal affairs, given that Miharu would, by her (it's?) admission, just a clone.
Miharu, you claim that you committed suicide by nanites. However, if that is the case then the one involved in this issue and parading around as Miharu must be a clone. Since clones are currently not legally recognized as an individual, and do not have the full rights of the original, your claims are invalidated.
Alternatively, we'll give you the option to suddenly plead "Not Dead"--basically say that it was a clone who committed suicide and we are now talking to you. However since all the actions you bring up would then have been done to the clone, and clones again to not have full rights, the charges are still invalidated. Also since you agreed to yourself enter Lecter's household that weekend, he can sue you for sending a clone instead.
To this date, the legality of clones, cloning and liabilities of clones have not been established and as such, clones do not necessarily inherit legal rights, protections or obligations granted by the law to individuals.
The debate is up for grab by anyone but many and profound implications arise by legally recognizing clones as one's very same self rather than some unregistered (via nation census and birth registry) artificial individual's twin. Are clones entities? Are they property? Are they liable for their owner or original self?
Lots of questions remain such as fiscal, social, criminal and moral implications. if a clone commits a crime, is the original responsible? If the original doesn't survive his clone, where does the succession go? Or is the original denied dead status?
Under the currently vague status of cloning, clones and every issues regarding this, it is hard to recognize many of (so-called) Miharu's claims regarding this criminal affairs, given that Miharu would, by her (it's?) admission, just a clone.
*smack* Do your research, nitwit. The original person and the clone CAN NOT be around at the same time with the same brainwave patterns. This was done by the cloning industry to prevent mass cloning of humans. Thus, the original person must be dying. Then the nanites send the brain "copy" to a nearby cloning machine, where a clone is made. The only thing that changes is the body, not the mind. So, any claims that they are not the same person are short sighted and ignorant, at best.
Thank you for your input!
Smitty, I knew there was a reason why you ended up on the council (a reason other than having won your post via democratic vote).
Council Smittens raises an important question as to the legality and legitimacy of cloning in general, weither it be for humans or lamb. Who is responsible for a clone? Is a clone responsible for himself? When, or IF, does a clone BECOMES and ceases to be property?
_IS_ Miharu _just_ a clone? Does the "current" Miharu (or any clone of someone else) have the right to claim to _be_ the original copy?
If one is killed and instantly cloned... was he ever dead? What does that do to any claim of murder, suicide or other wrongful act on a clone or it's original? When is a an entity no longer original? Does a clone of a clone has an original?
I invite all Itani and UIT scholars, philosophers, poets and other thinkers of all trades to discuss this, as it could have profound (as Council Smittens says) ramifications in the ongoing trial. I'm not particularly interested in Serco opinions but they might be entertaining.
Commander Mogul Velaio
Coalition Of Itan
Council Smittens raises an important question as to the legality and legitimacy of cloning in general, weither it be for humans or lamb. Who is responsible for a clone? Is a clone responsible for himself? When, or IF, does a clone BECOMES and ceases to be property?
_IS_ Miharu _just_ a clone? Does the "current" Miharu (or any clone of someone else) have the right to claim to _be_ the original copy?
If one is killed and instantly cloned... was he ever dead? What does that do to any claim of murder, suicide or other wrongful act on a clone or it's original? When is a an entity no longer original? Does a clone of a clone has an original?
I invite all Itani and UIT scholars, philosophers, poets and other thinkers of all trades to discuss this, as it could have profound (as Council Smittens says) ramifications in the ongoing trial. I'm not particularly interested in Serco opinions but they might be entertaining.
Commander Mogul Velaio
Coalition Of Itan
I move that the witness, who goes by the name Smittens, be dismissed. He has not met the requirements to appear as an expert witness before the court. He has not expertise in the field of Nanotechnology or Neurology. Nor has witnessed any of the alleged incidents himself, thus discounting him as an eyewitness.
Furthermore, I move that the above statement by the one known as Smittens be stricken from the record and that the judges ignore what he has said. He does not have legitimate standing as an expert and thus an "expert" testimony said by this person is null and void.
At the same time, I would like to point out to the court that one who goes by the name toshiro may meet the requirements as an expert in one or both of these fields.
Furthermore, I move that the above statement by the one known as Smittens be stricken from the record and that the judges ignore what he has said. He does not have legitimate standing as an expert and thus an "expert" testimony said by this person is null and void.
At the same time, I would like to point out to the court that one who goes by the name toshiro may meet the requirements as an expert in one or both of these fields.
<< the following is in character for RP purposes >>
Now, after careful consideration and research, I will respond to the defense's argument about my legal standing.
To begin, legal standing to bring forth an issue before the court is allowed for spouses, in example a wife bringing up a civil claim for the husband. While unusual, it is legal.
Now, to establish at the time that Joyce Sanders and I were legal spouses. For this, i bring up common law marriage. Common law marriage is established, and I paraphrase, when "a man and a woman live together in a in a marriage-like relationship for a specified period of time". I will break this down point by point.
"A man and a woman" - Medical examination records can confirm this.
"live together" - We had been sharing the same apartment for approximately a month at that point. The lease was ammended for this and can be provided if requested by the court.
"in a marriage-like relationship" - And this is where I present information that the defense may not have known about. I can make documents available proving this event to both he court and the defendant's legal counsel. Just nine days days before, I had proposed to Joyce. We were engaged at the time of the alleged incidents. I hope the court can clearly see this as "marriage-like" in nature. The petition for a marraige license from Corvus Prime can be provided on request of the court.
"for a specified period of time" - Corvus law does not specify any particular period of time. As well, I have more familiarity with the Itani legal system than my spouse and, as an Itani citizen, am more readily prepared to bring carges before an Itani court. Thus, given combination of the above factors with the time spent in this situation, I hope the court may grant me standing to bring up charges on behalf of my wife.
Now, if it may please the court, I would like to correct some discrepancies and amend the charges laid.
1 count of murder of his wife—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant asserts that alleged homicide victim was not at the time the spouse of MonkofAkan and that the complaint is thus fatally defective; further that MonkofAkan thus lacks standing to bring any such claim; further, Defendant did not in fact KILL anyone in this affair.
The defense is, in fact, correct in all aspects of his plea EXCEPT for the standing issue. Joyce was never murdered. I move that this charge is dropped.
1 count of cannibalism—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant only ate non-Serco and thus cannot be charged with cannibalism.
The charge remains as laid.
1 count of illegal disposal of corpse—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant did not in fact KILL anyone in this affair.
The charge remains as laid.
In addition to these charges, may it please the court that I petition for an addendum to these charges and add the following (I will refer to the victim by her first name):
1 count of conspiracy to kidnap - The defendant had ordered someone under his direct command to seize the stasis pod containing Joyce by force.
1 count of forced detainment - The defendant detained Joyce to a certain location without her express consent.
1 count of experimentation on a live subject without consent - The defendant did in fact experiment on Joyce as she was live, and conscious part of the time. At no point did she issue her consent.
1 count of ransoming - The defendant exchanged Joyce for the sum of thirty million credits and a "favor" from the person known as Miharu for Joyce's freedom from his experimentation and detainment in his lab.
1 count of seizure of genetic material without consent - The defendant seized DNA from Joyce without her express consent.
1 count of creation of clones without consent of the "original" subject - The defendant used said DNA that was seized to create clones of Joyce without her express consent.
The documents of these occurrences are available on request of the court for use in this trial. I thank the court for it's time.
Now, after careful consideration and research, I will respond to the defense's argument about my legal standing.
To begin, legal standing to bring forth an issue before the court is allowed for spouses, in example a wife bringing up a civil claim for the husband. While unusual, it is legal.
Now, to establish at the time that Joyce Sanders and I were legal spouses. For this, i bring up common law marriage. Common law marriage is established, and I paraphrase, when "a man and a woman live together in a in a marriage-like relationship for a specified period of time". I will break this down point by point.
"A man and a woman" - Medical examination records can confirm this.
"live together" - We had been sharing the same apartment for approximately a month at that point. The lease was ammended for this and can be provided if requested by the court.
"in a marriage-like relationship" - And this is where I present information that the defense may not have known about. I can make documents available proving this event to both he court and the defendant's legal counsel. Just nine days days before, I had proposed to Joyce. We were engaged at the time of the alleged incidents. I hope the court can clearly see this as "marriage-like" in nature. The petition for a marraige license from Corvus Prime can be provided on request of the court.
"for a specified period of time" - Corvus law does not specify any particular period of time. As well, I have more familiarity with the Itani legal system than my spouse and, as an Itani citizen, am more readily prepared to bring carges before an Itani court. Thus, given combination of the above factors with the time spent in this situation, I hope the court may grant me standing to bring up charges on behalf of my wife.
Now, if it may please the court, I would like to correct some discrepancies and amend the charges laid.
1 count of murder of his wife—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant asserts that alleged homicide victim was not at the time the spouse of MonkofAkan and that the complaint is thus fatally defective; further that MonkofAkan thus lacks standing to bring any such claim; further, Defendant did not in fact KILL anyone in this affair.
The defense is, in fact, correct in all aspects of his plea EXCEPT for the standing issue. Joyce was never murdered. I move that this charge is dropped.
1 count of cannibalism—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant only ate non-Serco and thus cannot be charged with cannibalism.
The charge remains as laid.
1 count of illegal disposal of corpse—Defendant denies any illegal activity in connection with this count. Specifically, Defendant did not in fact KILL anyone in this affair.
The charge remains as laid.
In addition to these charges, may it please the court that I petition for an addendum to these charges and add the following (I will refer to the victim by her first name):
1 count of conspiracy to kidnap - The defendant had ordered someone under his direct command to seize the stasis pod containing Joyce by force.
1 count of forced detainment - The defendant detained Joyce to a certain location without her express consent.
1 count of experimentation on a live subject without consent - The defendant did in fact experiment on Joyce as she was live, and conscious part of the time. At no point did she issue her consent.
1 count of ransoming - The defendant exchanged Joyce for the sum of thirty million credits and a "favor" from the person known as Miharu for Joyce's freedom from his experimentation and detainment in his lab.
1 count of seizure of genetic material without consent - The defendant seized DNA from Joyce without her express consent.
1 count of creation of clones without consent of the "original" subject - The defendant used said DNA that was seized to create clones of Joyce without her express consent.
The documents of these occurrences are available on request of the court for use in this trial. I thank the court for it's time.
Well your opinion is of course valid, though I disagree
<< The following is out of character >>
Okay, I can say you're right about the expert witness part if your character did indeed "boradcast it outside the courtroom.. blah blah blah". Still doesn't mean that the judges can't ignore you, like most people do.
I write on the forums because I feel like writing. I honestly don't care if people read them or not, like them or not. I don't "force" compliments or ask for them. I write because i like to write, I like to explain certain aspects of my character and *gasp* I like to RP in an RP game on the RP forum.
Plus, I don't see your issue with me RPing two seperate characters. I guess some people only have the brain capacity for one RP character, or in your case, no RP characters. Again, if it irks you that much that I used your childhood hero's name, tell me a good replacement and I'll ask Andy to kindly change it. being a dick won't help with that.
Plus, idjut, I took a year of a very basic law class. So, if I use "big words" that may hurt your brain and make you *gasp* pick up a dictionary, I'm sorry. The person behind Lecter is a law student and thus will rip most of us to shreds on law issues and such. Excuse me for using "proper terms". Perhaps it would be better for your fragile mind if I said "yeah, I dont agree with what that guy said cuz... yeah, I just dont agree. Oh and he's an idiot" instead. I know enough that judges and juries are to remain as impartial and free from outside information and influences as much as possible, ie your little display over the loudspeakers.
Finally, it's "He does not use grammar well". Funny that you were one to comment on someone else's grammar.
Okay, I can say you're right about the expert witness part if your character did indeed "boradcast it outside the courtroom.. blah blah blah". Still doesn't mean that the judges can't ignore you, like most people do.
I write on the forums because I feel like writing. I honestly don't care if people read them or not, like them or not. I don't "force" compliments or ask for them. I write because i like to write, I like to explain certain aspects of my character and *gasp* I like to RP in an RP game on the RP forum.
Plus, I don't see your issue with me RPing two seperate characters. I guess some people only have the brain capacity for one RP character, or in your case, no RP characters. Again, if it irks you that much that I used your childhood hero's name, tell me a good replacement and I'll ask Andy to kindly change it. being a dick won't help with that.
Plus, idjut, I took a year of a very basic law class. So, if I use "big words" that may hurt your brain and make you *gasp* pick up a dictionary, I'm sorry. The person behind Lecter is a law student and thus will rip most of us to shreds on law issues and such. Excuse me for using "proper terms". Perhaps it would be better for your fragile mind if I said "yeah, I dont agree with what that guy said cuz... yeah, I just dont agree. Oh and he's an idiot" instead. I know enough that judges and juries are to remain as impartial and free from outside information and influences as much as possible, ie your little display over the loudspeakers.
Finally, it's "He does not use grammar well". Funny that you were one to comment on someone else's grammar.
/me coughs discreetly.. *ahem*
First, two axioms come to mind. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing", and "It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's proverbial mouth and remove all doubt." Linked together, Monky, they form about as extensive and cogent a reply to your use of big legalistic words as I need or am so inclined to make.
On the other hand, not bad IRAC structure; your application founders a bit when it comes to the facts relevant to establishing a spousal relationship at the relevant time: common-law marriage unlikely to be reconized if the face of (1) engagement, hence unmarried; (2) time, even in absence of stautory requirement, this being VO; (3) fact that couple later did, in fact, go through a marriage ceremony. Joyce will thus have to bring charges herself, in so far as they are hers to bring (read "civil"). However, since Joyce isn't bringing any charges, and the Itani nation is more or less filing criminal charges, your testimony is perfectly legit as a witness. The endless hearsay and speculation objections aside.
Secondly, Smittens, knock it the hell off. This is an RP forum, and while a trial is taxing enough on a reasonable person's gut feelings of common sense--much less when said event occurs in a computer game--please stick to gutting Monky in character. It's easy, don't worry.
Thirdly, Smittens has raised an excellent point. Not about the clone/human distinction, since there's a question about that being the constant in the game. However, it's hard to charge me with homicide if I'm just wrecking genetic property. Send me a bill already, but the worst you could get me on is organic vandalism. All my alleged victims are still up and walking about! I challenge the court to bring forth one solid corpse!!
Oh, and finally, Monky... "Finally, it's "He does not use grammar well". Funny that you were one to comment on someone else's grammar." That, right there, supra... that one is called "irony" or "sarcasm." Smittens makes liberal use of it. Try to keep up =)
First, two axioms come to mind. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing", and "It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's proverbial mouth and remove all doubt." Linked together, Monky, they form about as extensive and cogent a reply to your use of big legalistic words as I need or am so inclined to make.
On the other hand, not bad IRAC structure; your application founders a bit when it comes to the facts relevant to establishing a spousal relationship at the relevant time: common-law marriage unlikely to be reconized if the face of (1) engagement, hence unmarried; (2) time, even in absence of stautory requirement, this being VO; (3) fact that couple later did, in fact, go through a marriage ceremony. Joyce will thus have to bring charges herself, in so far as they are hers to bring (read "civil"). However, since Joyce isn't bringing any charges, and the Itani nation is more or less filing criminal charges, your testimony is perfectly legit as a witness. The endless hearsay and speculation objections aside.
Secondly, Smittens, knock it the hell off. This is an RP forum, and while a trial is taxing enough on a reasonable person's gut feelings of common sense--much less when said event occurs in a computer game--please stick to gutting Monky in character. It's easy, don't worry.
Thirdly, Smittens has raised an excellent point. Not about the clone/human distinction, since there's a question about that being the constant in the game. However, it's hard to charge me with homicide if I'm just wrecking genetic property. Send me a bill already, but the worst you could get me on is organic vandalism. All my alleged victims are still up and walking about! I challenge the court to bring forth one solid corpse!!
Oh, and finally, Monky... "Finally, it's "He does not use grammar well". Funny that you were one to comment on someone else's grammar." That, right there, supra... that one is called "irony" or "sarcasm." Smittens makes liberal use of it. Try to keep up =)
I move that the ******bag, who goes by the name moldyman (or MonkofAkan, or Miles Tails Prower, or whatever the hell he wants to be called so he can write more stories in a video game's RP forum and recieve forced compliments from people who wouldn't tell him it sucked even if it did),
HAHAHAHA I know many people who feel that way
HAHAHAHA I know many people who feel that way
Your Honor, as an unbiased¹ "independent", I'd like to submit an opinion before the court. Smittens should know better than to argue facts from both within, and without his own character. It does nothing but confuse the facts for the proceedings... (and those in the gallery), for that *may* be his sole intent.
On the matter of homicide, I submit that "memories"... or more importantly, the trauma of the events prior to the synaptic transfer initiated via the sub-etherial communication links are preserved. True, while there may be no "body" remaining... history is preserved and reconstituted. The deed is not invalidated by the lack of physical retention... on the contrary... several cases in the archives are based on the very synaptic energies we are discussing here². Heaven only knows I have my own memories to deal with. As do we all.
Finally, I would venture to suggest that Smitty's bullhorn outcries from outside these most hallowed halls be taken exactly in the context for which they were meant... a distraction... and nothing more³.
I release the floor for further discusison.
--------
1. hummm... that won't stand up in *any* court, seeing as I was asked to give Miharu away, cruised "mimi" down the isle, got drunk after her wedding, and later attempted to arrest an innocent trying to "mine" my LT with a mining beam... oh well...
2. Okay, so I'm an old fart that is probably the only one around here old enough to have actually read the histories... heck, several of the cases I refer to are cases I had to endure simply because I happened to be the cop on duty at the time.
3. Smitty is being ninnyish... (did I say that out loud?)
On the matter of homicide, I submit that "memories"... or more importantly, the trauma of the events prior to the synaptic transfer initiated via the sub-etherial communication links are preserved. True, while there may be no "body" remaining... history is preserved and reconstituted. The deed is not invalidated by the lack of physical retention... on the contrary... several cases in the archives are based on the very synaptic energies we are discussing here². Heaven only knows I have my own memories to deal with. As do we all.
Finally, I would venture to suggest that Smitty's bullhorn outcries from outside these most hallowed halls be taken exactly in the context for which they were meant... a distraction... and nothing more³.
I release the floor for further discusison.
--------
1. hummm... that won't stand up in *any* court, seeing as I was asked to give Miharu away, cruised "mimi" down the isle, got drunk after her wedding, and later attempted to arrest an innocent trying to "mine" my LT with a mining beam... oh well...
2. Okay, so I'm an old fart that is probably the only one around here old enough to have actually read the histories... heck, several of the cases I refer to are cases I had to endure simply because I happened to be the cop on duty at the time.
3. Smitty is being ninnyish... (did I say that out loud?)
/me bribes the guards with tequila, stuffs Lecter into the trunk of his Valk, and takes a joyride around the bumpy sectors of the universe before depositing him back into his cell, shaken, not stirred.
/me smacks Smittens and takes away his MoM login.
/me gets Seta a tequila shot and thinks back on when times were simpler in the univere, where there was just killing WITHOUT trials.
/me smacks Smittens and takes away his MoM login.
/me gets Seta a tequila shot and thinks back on when times were simpler in the univere, where there was just killing WITHOUT trials.
"shiny"...
Okay, your posts have now gone from short and amusing to long, insipid, and booooring. Except for LeberMac's, of course.
You people are now engaging in upmanship and "godmodding" regarding the game universe and its background. None of the points about cloning or the judicial system are covered by the official VO story, and thus each and everyone can be laid moot, on both sides of the affair.
Add to that you cannot imprison, punish or kill Lecter for "real", and we see the banality of all this, and now it's not even fun to read.
So "let the guy go" already (as if you ever really had him) and let's return to the killin' where no amount of whining or saying "My RP is better than your RP" will take away that +1 to your PK score (or your Deaths score, in case you were on the wrong side of the killin').
You people are now engaging in upmanship and "godmodding" regarding the game universe and its background. None of the points about cloning or the judicial system are covered by the official VO story, and thus each and everyone can be laid moot, on both sides of the affair.
Add to that you cannot imprison, punish or kill Lecter for "real", and we see the banality of all this, and now it's not even fun to read.
So "let the guy go" already (as if you ever really had him) and let's return to the killin' where no amount of whining or saying "My RP is better than your RP" will take away that +1 to your PK score (or your Deaths score, in case you were on the wrong side of the killin').
Wow, just when you think Smittens can't sink to new, more childish lows, he does...
*congratulates Smittens, makes him an honorary Ninny*
*congratulates Smittens, makes him an honorary Ninny*
Now now Smittens, there are thousands of better reasons not to take me seriously...
Besides, with less than a week until Judgement Day (TM), I believe this thread has run its course.
What I really want to know, and would be most grateful if I got an answer is: Will Lecter abide by the "ruling"? I know he's gotten a bit bored of the game, but that said he was away one whole month and, apart from that Dr. Lecter excursion, Ory' Hara has been seen recently, proving what many vets have said about VO being difficult to completely abandon. So, will Lecter stay away if ITAN locks him up, or will he return to the game to wreak havoc (which, admit it, was always fun) if he's released?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Besides, with less than a week until Judgement Day (TM), I believe this thread has run its course.
What I really want to know, and would be most grateful if I got an answer is: Will Lecter abide by the "ruling"? I know he's gotten a bit bored of the game, but that said he was away one whole month and, apart from that Dr. Lecter excursion, Ory' Hara has been seen recently, proving what many vets have said about VO being difficult to completely abandon. So, will Lecter stay away if ITAN locks him up, or will he return to the game to wreak havoc (which, admit it, was always fun) if he's released?
Inquiring minds want to know!